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Draxoniss
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PostSubject: Ability Purchasing   Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:54 am

One thing I never liked about NWN was the class limit. I always want to multi class. And multi class some more. The problem is, only three classes are allowed. So, how do you get the ablities from another class?

My solution is purchasing them. Special items could be handed out by DMs that allow high(*Very* high, 30+) level characters certain abilities from other classes. Special coins could be awarded by DMs to players for especially good behavior, the completion of certain DM-run quests, or for well done Role-Play.
These coins could then be used to purchase feats from other classes, alter a charater's abilities, or change some other aspect of a character. I believe there is a non-hak way to script the adding of ability points and feat, because I've seen it on other servers. One thing, that might be a problem, is that it would require the "Enforce Legal Character" mode for the module to be deativated.
Another fact is that it might cause less focus to be on the role play and more on the "power gaming." By making it given as a reward for Role Play, however, could negate, or at leat lessen, this possibility.
Another problem I realized is that this could remove the uniqueness of different classes.Therefore, certain ablilities(such as spellcasting, the better greater wild shapes, smite evil, flurry of blows, and Ki strike(the magic weapon treatment of unarmed strikes)) would be ommmitted from the options. Examples of ablilities that might be included would be increased speed, wisdom based AC, unarmed strikes for improved damage, better attack bonuses, lower level wild shapes, lowest level undead grafts, and certain companions.

I would appreciate feedback on this.

NOTE: I am not a scriptor, so anything I'm saying might not be accurate. I've simply seen the feat giving and ability changing on other servers with no more haks than this server.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:00 am

most of that is not possible to do without a heck of a lot of script work going into it and would occupy a lot of time from one of us scripters to manage it + its not very reasonable really as it eliminates class uniqueness. a very few of them could possibly be used but not as many as you might think. wisdom base ac is monk unique so if everyone can get that then it makes monks pretty useless. in my opinion there should not even be heal potions because it makes clerics much less needed and useful. i like uniqueness and i won't likely go for anything that takes it away from a certain class.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:11 pm

i guess it all depends on everyones point of view, a good way to really know is to make a poll. i remain neutral, with the exception of this post, but it doesnt hurt to try and level the feild here :3

it would be great to be able to have certain abilities, but they would have to be hard earned (like limited to players who have been dedicated to the server, or etc etc)

and i think they shouldnt be class unique but rather damage unique (like maybe armor with a immunity to critical hits, or perhaps a weapon that would do massive critical damage).

And on that note they could have vulnerable points, such as one could be immune to critical hits, but vulnverable to sneak attacks and so on...
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Sep 28, 2010 12:05 am

I agree that it would eliminate some of the class uniquness, which is something that I value(the uniqueness, not the elmimation part)...this is only an idea, so if it is to be taken seriosly, there would need to be a heck of a lot of refinement.

I also agree that it would have to be *extremely* hard earned.

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Draxoniss
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PostSubject: Speed Abilities   Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:21 am

An ablility that isn't so unique is the incredibly fast speeds of running. Both Monks and Barbarians, if I recall, have that ablility. If there were to be a list of abilities that were available to other classes, I would say that that definitely has the possibility of being on there.

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Draxoniss
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PostSubject: OR this could be done...   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:09 pm

I realized that I was coming at this idea from the wrong "angle"...instead of granting class abilities to outside classes, I have an idea of allowing characters with three classes to effectively gain levels in another class. The price would be a level in their own class...so that you would effectively gain a level in another class, if you so chose. A character would not be able to gain a spellcasting class as a bonus class, however(since spells of outside classes aren't available in any non-haking scripts I've ever seen). The character would gain all the abilities of that class, save hit points, feats, and ability points(things that would be gained by going up an "actual" level in any class.) Thus, the character would be that class in all but a word on the sheet. This (hopefully) means that the uniquness and interest of the class isn't taken away...

Access to this option could be given as a reward...or perhaps to level 40 characters as something to do at level 40, since thereafter the character can't level up any more, and the game begins to become boring...unless there's hope for something more.

I have a feeling there are several(hundred) flaws in this idea, so refining it would be very useful.


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Last edited by Draxoniss on Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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PostSubject: Re: RavenBlood123's post   Fri Oct 01, 2010 11:14 pm

I really like the idea of having the armor with special resistances(such as critical hits), or weapons with special damage...perhaps these item could be purchased with the special DM-given items I mentioned earlier...
OR, perhaps the "Special Coins" could be used to purchase items that add the special ability to an item already in the character's possesion.

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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:15 am

We could could try a coin reward system. Which players could collect and cash in for mods on weapons or special made items ( perhaps something maybe from the DL novel books)

Input on items are welcomed.

Chars like dragons could be earned as well from Reward coins.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Sat Oct 02, 2010 12:39 am

Side question: I've been meaning to find out...how are Dragon characters gained?

Some ideas for items could be that they grant total immunity to a certain type of damage or immunity to a certain effect.


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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:15 am

monk speed and barbarian speed are not the same thing and again they are unique to those classes so it would not be proper to give those abilities to other classes. the problem is that if you take away unique abilities from classes and allow anyone to be able to get them then why play those unique classes? why should a fighter be able to run like a monk or a rogue have wisdom ac bonus? monks especially have it rough to begin with and can not easily beat most other classes in a fight so you are suggesting to make it even harder for them by allowing anyone to use their abilities. if a monk could cast spells or a wizard had 800 hp and 70 ac then there is nothing unique about nwn anymore and anyone could be anything and there would be chaos. the idea about immunities to this or to that is a possibility but d&d as a rule limits you to 3 classes last time i checked and it does that for a reason which is this: if a character had 5 or 6 classes then that character would simply be unbeatable because it would have too many abilities and power builders especially would abuse that. i know this for fact because i myself would do so. i do understand the want for more but it can not come at the expense of unique classes. as i already stated, having certain potions in the game, most noteably heal potions already doesn't make me overly happy because it eliminates a huge reason for having clerics around, makes them less needed.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:27 am

I do Agree with Zeboi on these... I too am not happy with Potions of Heal.. The others healing type potions are ok but the Full Heal ones should be left to the Clerics.

Just my 1 cent thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:38 pm

Zeboim wrote:
monk speed and barbarian speed are not the same thing and again they are unique to those classes so it would not be proper to give those abilities to other classes. the problem is that if you take away unique abilities from classes and allow anyone to be able to get them then why play those unique classes? why should a fighter be able to run like a monk or a rogue have wisdom ac bonus? monks especially have it rough to begin with and can not easily beat most other classes in a fight so you are suggesting to make it even harder for them by allowing anyone to use their abilities. if a monk could cast spells or a wizard had 800 hp and 70 ac then there is nothing unique about nwn anymore and anyone could be anything and there would be chaos. the idea about immunities to this or to that is a possibility but d&d as a rule limits you to 3 classes last time i checked and it does that for a reason which is this: if a character had 5 or 6 classes then that character would simply be unbeatable because it would have too many abilities and power builders especially would abuse that. i know this for fact because i myself would do so. i do understand the want for more but it can not come at the expense of unique classes. as i already stated, having certain potions in the game, most noteably heal potions already doesn't make me overly happy because it eliminates a huge reason for having clerics around, makes them less needed.




To save me a LOT of work on trying to remove all "heal" potions from the server. Maybe make them a bit harder to buy them? By limiting them in shops.

Like instead of unlimited buy, place so many stacks in a shop first come first served.

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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:47 pm

I know it would be tons and tons of work but I still say remove them..

but that is my opinion..


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Draxoniss
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:58 pm

Zeboim wrote:
monk speed and barbarian speed are not the same thing and again they are unique to those classes so it would not be proper to give those abilities to other classes. the problem is that if you take away unique abilities from classes and allow anyone to be able to get them then why play those unique classes? why should a fighter be able to run like a monk or a rogue have wisdom ac bonus? monks especially have it rough to begin with and can not easily beat most other classes in a fight so you are suggesting to make it even harder for them by allowing anyone to use their abilities. if a monk could cast spells or a wizard had 800 hp and 70 ac then there is nothing unique about nwn anymore and anyone could be anything and there would be chaos. the idea about immunities to this or to that is a possibility but d&d as a rule limits you to 3 classes last time i checked and it does that for a reason which is this: if a character had 5 or 6 classes then that character would simply be unbeatable because it would have too many abilities and power builders especially would abuse that. i know this for fact because i myself would do so. i do understand the want for more but it can not come at the expense of unique classes. as i already stated, having certain potions in the game, most noteably heal potions already doesn't make me overly happy because it eliminates a huge reason for having clerics around, makes them less needed.

I see your point. I revised the way I was looking at my idea(another point...it's only an idea, so don't take it too seriously) by, instead of gaining an ability unique to another class, you instead gain another class after three classes. You will see more detail on this if you look at my reply with the title "OR this could be done..."

Also, I can see how heal potions are too convinient and detract from the usefulness of a certain class. I would suggest either eliminating the full heal potions or making them extremely expensive. After all, the healer will eventually run out of spells, and you don't always get a chance to rest.

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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Tue Oct 05, 2010 10:01 pm

Draxoniss wrote:
Zeboim wrote:
monk speed and barbarian speed are not the same thing and again they are unique to those classes so it would not be proper to give those abilities to other classes. the problem is that if you take away unique abilities from classes and allow anyone to be able to get them then why play those unique classes? why should a fighter be able to run like a monk or a rogue have wisdom ac bonus? monks especially have it rough to begin with and can not easily beat most other classes in a fight so you are suggesting to make it even harder for them by allowing anyone to use their abilities. if a monk could cast spells or a wizard had 800 hp and 70 ac then there is nothing unique about nwn anymore and anyone could be anything and there would be chaos. the idea about immunities to this or to that is a possibility but d&d as a rule limits you to 3 classes last time i checked and it does that for a reason which is this: if a character had 5 or 6 classes then that character would simply be unbeatable because it would have too many abilities and power builders especially would abuse that. i know this for fact because i myself would do so. i do understand the want for more but it can not come at the expense of unique classes. as i already stated, having certain potions in the game, most noteably heal potions already doesn't make me overly happy because it eliminates a huge reason for having clerics around, makes them less needed.

I see your point. I revised the way I was looking at my idea(another point...it's only an idea, so don't take it too seriously) by, instead of gaining an ability unique to another class, you instead gain another class after three classes. You will see more detail on this if you look at my reply with the title "OR this could be done..."

Also, I can see how heal potions are too convinient and detract from the usefulness of a certain class. I would suggest either eliminating the full heal potions or making them extremely expensive. After all, the healer will eventually run out of spells, and you don't always get a chance to rest.

Sorry, Zeboim. I didn't quite read until I got to the part about the five for six classes before quoting. To add to what I am saying, perhaps my method could only add 1 class on to a character, total.

Also, another reason for another class of this kind might be to keep level 40 characters from getting bored, since there is nowhere left to go after level 40.

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Last edited by Draxoniss on Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:46 am

I've been thinking...perhaps this(see above), even with a limitation of four classes, would unbalance the game too much. The issue I have is that I've always wanted many different abilities in one character. My dream character would probably have been a druid/monk/wizard/shifter, but perhaps that's too unbalanced. So, perhaps I should simply bite the bullet and give up on having a character with my all favorite classes in one.

However, and I'm not sure if this would be the right area to post this, but I haven't seen any discussion on the implementation of Psionics in this server. I could see psionics powers as being items that use a unique power to produce their effect.

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PostSubject: Dragon Characters   Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:09 am

Since the suggestion of Dragon Characters being purchaseable with reward coins was raised, I am asking a few questions about how this would work(in an attempt to stir up ideas).

-Would the Dragon Characters be able to choose their alignment?

-Would the cost of the Dragon be affected by the type?

-Would Dragons also come in the non-standard variety? (extraplanar and gem come to mind)

-If the non-standard varieties were chosen, would the site have to update to CEP 2.3 for the new models?(Last I heard we were 2.2, but I could be wrong.)

-Could visual effects, such as glowing or stone coloring, be applied to certain dragon models to show a different dragon type?

-Would the Dragons be actual characters from the Dragonlance setting?

-How would size changes due to aging work?
The first idea off the top of my head would be to start the character off with youngest model that can shapeshift into a humanoid one, and increasing the dragon model size as an option with certain levels. Also, the dragon of a certain size could have the option of ahape-shifting to a smaller size catagory, and the effect would be persistent until the dragon shifted back. Basically, the model is just altered in a non-polymorphing fashion. The size/shape-shifting could simply be superficial...it would be for role-play/fitting through doorways/personal preference.

If we're going to have dragon characters, are we going to have any other monster type characters(such as demons or celestials)?

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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:44 am

-Would the Dragon Characters be able to choose their alignment?

The alignment of a dragon depends on the color chosen.

-Would the cost of the Dragon be affected by the type?

Once the price is determined, I do not believe so, unless everybody wants one color then the price may increase (supply/demand).

-Would Dragons also come in the non-standard variety? (extraplanar and gem come to mind)

Currently available are: Silver, Bronze, Copper, Red, Black, Blue, White, Green, Shadow, and Dracolich.

-If the non-standard varieties were chosen, would the site have to update to CEP 2.3 for the new models?(Last I heard we were 2.2, but I could be wrong.)

If we do decide to add non-standard, there are ways to do it without updating.

-Could visual effects, such as glowing or stone coloring, be applied to certain dragon models to show a different dragon type?

If you go to the edit character window you can add such effects.

-Would the Dragons be actual characters from the Dragonlance setting?

Depends on what the person purchasing the character wants. Currently there are Dragonlance characters and dragons that are created completely by the owner.

-How would size changes due to aging work?

In order to make all doors accessible the current system has the dragon character set as human until an item is activated changing the appearance to that of a dragon. A varying size shape shift could be developed however it would make it very hard to move around at a larger size.

If we're going to have dragon characters, are we going to have any other monster type characters(such as demons or celestials)?

I suppose these could be available by request. Basically we have the technology. (Side note: character type must be present in dragonlance)
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 07, 2010 8:23 pm

Sargonnas wrote:

If we're going to have dragon characters, are we going to have any other monster type characters(such as demons or celestials)?

That is very possible, however the issue has never been brought up yet. I do plan to add other various races such as animals and stuff, or goblins or w/e. But the request for other things hasnt really came up. If a decent amount of people ask for a certain thing, and the other DM's dont mind id be more than glad to add em.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:05 pm

This is getting a little off of the original topic, so why not move the discussion to the
***New Subraces :3*** topic? I've already started on it in that section.

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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:14 am

the concern here is that level 40 characters are basically boring because they have nothing to do but in truth there is still plenty to do if people will utilize the server and everything it stands for. for one thing there is normal peaceful rp that can be had, then there is pvp based rp and action if the players will step up and actually do it instead of acting like the good guys and bad guys should be buddies and with my epic items there is always fun to be had which is why i made them and continue trying to make more when i am able. i could do purchasable abilities as well if i knew that everyone supported the idea but so far not enough people seem interested in something like that.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:04 am

Hiddukel wrote:
We could could try a coin reward system. Which players could collect and cash in for mods on weapons or special made items ( perhaps something maybe from the DL novel books)

Input on items are welcomed.

Chars like dragons could be earned as well from Reward coins.

What about single-use items that add a certain property to another item?
Examples:
-token adds elemental damage to weapon, or electrical resistance to armor/accessory
-token adds use of spell a certain number of times per day to a mage staff

What about armor that grants certain immunities in common with creature types?

i.e.
-a skull mask with immunity to negative energy and mind effects, and vulnerability to positive energy, or
-a dragon mask with immunity to fear, paralysis, and sleep.

They're just ideas.

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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:50 am

I gotta be honest here. most of what is being suggested is to promote a more powerful char. either improved abilities or reduced risk of damage etc.. That kinda leads towards " power building " because i cant see much of this leading to RP or plot / story related..
Its only my opinion and not a poke at anyone, but if you gain extra abilities and beat my chars in the game it doesnt affect me.. Now on the otherhand if you were to RP me to death i would consider you an equal to the gods..
food for thought maybe
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:41 am

Dude a W is a W, but I believe the consensus seems to be that adding additional abilities is a bad idea and will not be added. The subrace system does add some new abilities to players but this is the same as an predetermined constantly equipped item.
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PostSubject: Re: Ability Purchasing   Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:19 pm

I personally do not like the idea of ability purchasing. Now if items that can be forged have feats similar to the offhand axe or gloves of balanced hands, that's fine. Even items that cast spells are cool with me bit taking all of the classes and giving away their abilities makes the role-play experience pretty lame. In response to the boring after lvl 40 comment I read, generally the player makes the game interesting not the character build. This server has enough DM's to torture the players on a constant basis but instead they do a great job of helping to keep the experience enjoyable, even for those who use the same character day after day.
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