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PostSubject: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:39 pm

I just want to take a moment for the topic of meta gaming, feel free to join in. First of all I will apoligise for ranting, lol, I like doing it from time to time.

Paladins cannot magically detect undead, it is not on their skill list, nor their feats selection. Thus, unless you see something that is clearly undead (zombie, ghoul, skeleton, decaying animals attacking and such) you will obviously not know that it is.
Detect evil- a possible given for paladins since it is in pnp, however, it is not in the nwn engine, and I am guessing that it would be a dm's call via role play if such beings of evil do not have a way to hide their alignment.

If you cast an epic level spell (or anything higher than lvl 5 for that matter) in front of a tower mage, guess what, the game is up, they know you are a renegade. As there is a good understanding as to who is in the tower and taken the test amongst the orders.

I doubt that any char can sense a great evil from miles away, when most of the time evil is concealed by clerical or magical means.

No offense to the dms, but, gods would most likely not take interest in a singular vampire, let alone Lord Soth would not go for a vampire elf with a cha of 8. . .Nor would he travel all the way to a city just to point out that the elf is undead.

Paladins can also not tell what classes you have, ie, if some one is a pale master, and their arm and hand is covered up, neither you nor anyone else is going to know that said mage is in fact a pale master.

Would a paladin travel with a black robe, this would depend on the circumstances, if a black robe is after an artifact of power then perhaps the paladin would travel with such an individual to try and ensure that said artifact is not used for evil means.

This of course brings up another point, the majority of the knights of Solamania are not paladins, they are fighters, cavaliers, and weapon masters. This is mainly because at this juncture of time on krynn, they have not shown themselves worthy of receiving the power of the gods, as most of them are greedy, corrupt, and in a state of decline. Most knights do not even have lands or money any longer as the commoners have burnt down their castles and killed their families due to the unjust treatment and taxation of said knights. They are currently trying to regain face with people, which is why the dragon armies have made so much headway in conquering krynn.

Would the gods continuously appear before mortals along with epic monsters, not very likely. I understand events, adventures, and so forth. However random encounters with godly draco liches that are next to impossible to kill, and the gods in full form, while journeying across the lands is a bit much.

Players using shout channel, honestly i think the function should be disabled to all except dms. But that's just my opinion. It is highly annoying and disruptive to role play. if you want to say hello, there is party chat and tells.

If come one is wearing a disguise. . .ie different clothing from the last time a char saw them, and their face is covered, guess what, your char probably has no clue who they are, please play as such.

If you see a black robe and you think they are evil, guess what, you are probably right. Besides, randomly appearing beside a black robe, as a paladin, and then stating that you sense a great evil, well, it made me laugh. Smile I have to say i thought it was the most amusing thing all day.

Crafting, I will periodically post what bugs i find as I go along and continue to test the system, hopefully it will help.
Other bugs, i hope others will post them as well in the bug forum thingy.

The bow for kagenosti elves, they have wonderful to attack bonuses, and that about it. Unlimited +6, 7, and 8 arrows would be better for aa's, or there is the aa improvement script i posted if its being considered.

Dragon metal- originally used to create the dragon lances, should have an on hit slay dragon property to it, it makes sense. So just food for thought there, perhaps something low like 25, as most things are only going to fail on a 1 from what I have seen with the higher level creatures.

Undead- should not be immune to heal, mass heal, cure spells, or the likes, it is one of their greatest weaknesses, yet there are many which are.

Undead should not be vulnerable to implosion.

The skeletons in sla mori, are not classified as undead, unless the silver coated weapons are broken some how and they do not have to roll a save.

The undead knights should not change your faction to hostile against the living knights, they are undead and look like ghouls, and would be considered Sloth's minions, not part of the knights.

Would the dark queen attack a city with her high clerics to find a mid level vampire? Most likely not.
Would Chemosh make it known that one of his was in a city in front of paladins/knights and so forth, just to get them a message? Of course not.

Would the fighters guild issue a decree to slay dragon army on sight, knowing that it would cost them members and possibly tempt the armies to invade their city and string them up by their toes while flaying them over a fire? I hope not.

If several have not taken the time to read the war of the lance series, I would encourage it so that there is a better understanding of the period and place you are in. Not to be condescending, but it would help role play. Smile

Alright, that's all my ranting for now. :p
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:39 am

Magi Caine wrote:
The undead knights should not change your faction to hostile against the living knights, they are undead and look like ghouls, and would be considered Sloth's minions, not part of the knights.

One thing I will comment on, the Solamnic undead are called Haunts. In PnP terms it is basically a "lawful good" undead.

You can find info on them here.

http://www.sulerin.com/creatures/creatures.asp?op=open&a=20030923232452

They are quite different from fallen knights. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Tue Aug 09, 2011 12:54 am

These are quite interesting

Haunt, Knight

Medium Undead

Source(s): Bestiary of Krynn, Dragonlance (MC4)
Alignment: Often Lawful Good
Climate/Terrain: Temperate Plains
Organization: Solitary or unit (3-Cool
Rarity: Very Rare
Challenge Rating: 7
Experience Value: 2,000

A floating suit of Solamnic armor, always accompanied by some sort of weapon. If the battle where the knight fell was one where many knights perished then they appear to ride a suit of floating horse barding. These rise during Solinari's full moon phase and roam the battlefield where they were slain.

So, the knights should be on an invisible horse, themselves being invisible minus the armor. Kind of like a lg helmed horror on a horse. And they are very rare, only showing at certain times. . .so theoretically we shouldn't see them all that much, let alone have a faction change due to being attacked by one, though I believe its fixed now. Something like a restless spirit from the battle field that refuses to leave, perhaps there could be a quest about trying to give some of them peace or some such? It could be interesting. I for see possibly helping some of them find peace as an excellent quest for young knights to prove their wisdom and such.

So, I am guessing that Soth has some other nasty knights of the black rose which will come out to play sooner or later. Though I would imagine that to be pretty rare as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:52 pm

One thing which intrested me was that after declaring myself being renegade to black robe he ignored that fact. No hate or anything else.
Also, i'd like to state one thing: If someone tries to take off hood of my character i consider it as hostile action(since it probably will lead to hostile actions towards my character) and I start throwing spells. I think it's logical.
+I've got a few comments about pvp rules:
3 warning rule was just stupid in some situations(for example my lich walking on Caergoth trying to make himself be considered as harmless skeleton. If there were characters with good enough intelligence they could see what's going on they should just attack Lavre because he CAN be dangerous)
It's also stupid, when I see somewhere character which mine hates in 100%. I have to tell him: I'm going to kill you 3x times? Stupid. I just kill him(especially when i can have surprise advantage).
In addition, I think, that creating of lich topic should be somehow touched. There should be 2 possibilities. One could be selling your soul to Chemosh(most option for clerics) and phylactery(for arcane).
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:37 pm

Urudin wrote:
One thing which intrested me was that after declaring myself being renegade to black robe he ignored that fact. No hate or anything else.
Also, i'd like to state one thing: If someone tries to take off hood of my character i consider it as hostile action(since it probably will lead to hostile actions towards my character) and I start throwing spells. I think it's logical.
+I've got a few comments about pvp rules:
3 warning rule was just stupid in some situations(for example my lich walking on Caergoth trying to make himself be considered as harmless skeleton. If there were characters with good enough intelligence they could see what's going on they should just attack Lavre because he CAN be dangerous)
It's also stupid, when I see somewhere character which mine hates in 100%. I have to tell him: I'm going to kill you 3x times? Stupid. I just kill him(especially when i can have surprise advantage).
In addition, I think, that creating of lich topic should be somehow touched. There should be 2 possibilities. One could be selling your soul to Chemosh(most option for clerics) and phylactery(for arcane).




Its two warnings in RP and if a spell is cast or a buff used all bets are off.

With out a rule like this i could just say I hate all casters 100% or knights or DA and attack with out warning. This would lead to chaos very quick.
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:05 pm

I tend to take challenges issued in shouts as a free invitation. Its like saying "here i am, i dare you to come kill me!" and what usually happens? The person ends up dead or as a statue. I prefer the whole statue thing, since honestly I'm not much for pvp. I prefer pve. But it seems to me that some people are gluttons for punishment, I would imagine from a perspective of a char, if another has accepted said challenge and won on multiple occasions, then the challenger would learn to shut his mouth and quit asking to fight say, all the black robes, and what not. But that's just my opinion. I think a dm should be involved in a renegade hunt event, since there seems to be some which are daring the tower to stop them.
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Houd Glittergold
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PostSubject: just a wee bit of an egotist...   Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:27 am

Ok, I did overstep a bit (slight exageration)when I said via Jena Davies that she sensed an evil from a far aways... Ya, I'm an Old P&P D&D person... but 1)wasnt talking about your little wizard soccerer...who if not doing something evil would still barely notice on the evil scale, compared to Lord Soth who was just there and the Manifestation of Hiddukel(sp) who was still standing there... get over yourself eh?
Scale 1 to 10... your evil L40 wizard? 2... Lord Soth like a 7 or 8... Hiddukel like 10+ and that's a by powers of 10 between.
Yes, your evil, but your not legendary as Soth nor Immortal like
Hiddukel(sp). Just a wannabe original gangsta wizard? I really dont think they had them in Krynn.
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Houd Glittergold
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PostSubject: PVP RP   Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:14 am

ok, as to your wanting to change the server rules on PVP? ya, it would be convenient for you... but that's NOT the point of RP is it? I tend to think that if I see a known foe, ie DA Member on my KOS character, that I shouldnt have to do much to engage them in combat... but that is not the server's rules...and for the stealth classes I really think it should be a warning like, "you feel uneasy", then maybe "you feel watched", and finally a "with a glint of steel/mithril etc you feel your life imperiled...as you get backstabbed. and if you buff/cast a spell they should again be able to attack their target immediately. As to my KOS character? Since I'm LG I probably want to pull my sword and klang it against my sheild to make sure they know I'm there. It would not be very honorable to ambush even a goblin much less a legendary figure... for my character it should be a fair fight as I can get it...that way when I win ...there is no dishonor. As to a renegade wizard/soccerer? *you feel the static of magic gathering near* ...then *The darkness and energy seems to gather to your X* (and X being YOUR direction) and maybe finally *A deep dark mass of a void like essense pounces toward you!* or something like that... its RP! but it's up to you to get that accross ...ie the proof is on you to make sure you communicated the imminent attack... and even my examples may not hold up! It is not the attacked that must make the effort...its the attacker... else you would get folks saying that Hi! meant I'm going to kill you. And wellmet was their 2nd warning... and Thanks was their final...just doesn't bear out. Btw same thing with your hood... and if it was like a shadowdancer doing it...how are you going to know it was them when you can't see them normally? Talk about metagaming... again I'm going to say it... we all do it to different degrees and portails... and yes, its cheating and its also why to kill a character off you must get that characters permission to do so... doesnt that make sense? For example I metagame by looking at folks levels to know IF, sense I like to keep the recommended 7 level grouping restriction, I can group with X. Is it metagaming? yes, very much so...but if I'm to keep the servers rules on grouping can I really be blamed? IMO no. I don't group with other KOS folks unless they are in that range or if its a gm event...which the GM figure that were usually all grouped or on faction groups if its a hostile takeover of an area. Ie if the DM's know, and they don't say no... it's sorta a given that it's ok. Ok... Really this should not be that big a deal... but honestly L40's and L4's should not be grouped or even 40's with 20s... since that is what is recommended...ie we should have enough discpline to not be spoiled children... and do whatever we want to do. I have 20characters of various levels...and I'm not adverse to playing or starting another, just to play with someone new. You want to sit and talk with them no problem. If there are mobs in the area? just don't be grouped with the lower folks.

woops reread DM's post above its 2 warnings ...makes it easier ...you should be happy!
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:19 am

Houd Glittergold wrote:
Ok, I did overstep a bit (slight exageration)when I said via Jena Davies that she sensed an evil from a far aways... Ya, I'm an Old P&P D&D person... but 1)wasnt talking about your little wizard soccerer...who if not doing something evil would still barely notice on the evil scale, compared to Lord Soth who was just there and the Manifestation of Hiddukel(sp) who was still standing there... get over yourself eh?
Scale 1 to 10... your evil L40 wizard? 2... Lord Soth like a 7 or 8... Hiddukel like 10+ and that's a by powers of 10 between.
Yes, your evil, but your not legendary as Soth nor Immortal like
Hiddukel(sp). Just a wannabe original gangsta wizard? I really dont think they had them in Krynn.

First of all, yes , Calous has huge ego. It probably bigger than all of krynn. :p
Second, a slight exaguration doesn't cover detecting evil miles away, which even in pnp, any addition i've played, from first, (yes, i've played first edition), to second, third, and fourth. And given, that after level twenty in pnp a char it technically considered a demi-god they would have a pretty nasty aura if you will of their evil/good/ or chaos, unless it is so hidden. As far as a normal paladin detecting the god Hiddukel, will never happen, he's the king of lies, and I am quite certain that mortals will never know who he is unless he so desires it, nor his aura of evil. Soth, well Lord Soth is a death knight, and granted he is an amazingly evil char in dragonlance, and in ravenloft when the dark queen banishes him there eventually, I doubt he would put off an aura which is miles away. Calous however was being sarcastic at the time when speaking to Jena, as he often is with the knights, as he has no respect for them at all, given the recent aligning with undead lichs and such. But that is a different story and I wont give away all of cal's motives here.

For pvp, I think rogues/assassins should have fair game on back stabbing some one and such, its their only advantage to sneak up on some one and do so, as long as there is valid rp for such. A price on some one's head and such or poor relations between the two said chars. Perma death, never been a real big fan of, however, if people would like a more difficult death system, ie when you die it leaves a corpse behind where as your friends have to take you to a cleric for healing/raising and such I can see if I still have the script for it and toss it Tim's way for a look. Corpses can also be burned, where in you would need resurrection as opposed to simple raising, and respawning would not be an option after level 10 or so, you would have to be raised.

As for the group level restriction, it is a recommendation. Such is clearly listed in the rules, this debate has been squashed before. If an archmage is tutoring an apprentice the level difference makes perfect sense, same with a knight tutoring a squire, as well as fighters and so forth. Granted of course, the lower levels do not have to try and learn from their betters, but that's all rp option. I personally prefer to tutor young mages if they ask, they can learn counter spells via rp, tower laws and history, and so on and so forth, if they want. Otherwise, Cal just pops in and out on occasion to see how they're doing. And I wont comment on the spoiled children comment from Houd, he is quite capable of setting his own tempo.
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PostSubject: recomended levels   Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:33 pm

I can see that happening where the L40mage is intructing the L4...and only getting 50exp per mob. Or even the L20 squire with his Level 40 Knight mentor. Most of the experience would goto the knight and since the knight is only probably getting 50exp the same should be said for the squire getting the same exp. Why would the exp be more for the squire...the real exp is the knight explaining what is to be done or how...not the mob, which is only giving it the exp for the danger it imposes...which is negligable because the mentor/knight or mage is there. But since there is no such script? obey the implied rule eh? Or get DM approval ahead of time. RP is not supposed to be easy... if you wanted that go hit story light or hack and slash. Monty Hall lives down the street...2nd house on the left with the mithril vorpal swords and the knights that say, "Ni!" As to Hiddukel? maybe he would to some and others not...he is the father of lies...he could overtly show his full power to 1 character and to another seem more pure and lovely than anything else... or he might just mirror himself to reflect what one projects... A god can do many things... but since he didnt state he wasnt projecting anything but himself...your assumptions may utterly be wrong. Therefore I say I saw him in an evil manifestation...since I saw nothing to refute/contrain that opinion ... We're not going to get along and I can accept that. Are you right,maybe..and again maybe not... but I'm not sure that's the point. You think your RP is the ONLY important RP...if it is. I'm just saying no, and taking your RP and saying its more important than my rp isn't right either(and vice versa). And you seem to think that justfying your RP is greater and better makes your rp better. No, it just makes you annoying, egotistical and a general bore. Now, if you can get others to go along with your delusion fine, but I for 1 WON'T. Get it? I dont wish to share yours...and I really don't wish you to share mine. With that said I shall simply state, that we don't belong in either's rp. Please leave me out of yours or writing about me and I shall leave you out of mine. I'm trying to be mostly pleasant. I do not precieve your as such so far. So leave your comments to thy self.
As to the 7 level recomendation its there to promote more rp...not less. It's there to express that the world is a hard place to be shared, not some excuse to open door #3.

Also, just so you get this, and not saying that I wish RP to be harder or anything, but RP on this server is at BEST mediocre including mine. 1)the acting is poor 2) the mindset is too modern 3) the day to day harshness of the era is too foriegn... the idea to us that you eat lunch with someone and and are burying them for some disease or random act of violence is rare. 4)knowledge of such times is at best a 3 of 10... a blacksmith was like almost a wizard! and his advice on technical things was rarely ignored...and there were guilds in europe for all kinds of things...teamsters and foresters, and carpenters, and wheelwrights and boatwrights, barrelwrights, and what 1 could do and another could not. And there were consequences where you could be sued for damages, backpay to others... really I'd say we're at best story light... we just go around all kinds of things that were important to folks back then.

Really, I dont think you should allow folks to start evil characters until they prove they can play a good character or a neutral one first... get the first parts first. A really good evil character is not as easy as it seems... because you need to keep some folks friendly ... or well bad things would happen in your sleep. And a renegade wizard/soccerer would not wish to take on the tower...not unless they were insane or had something to insure it. We're talking folks that are smarter, more cleaver...probably more than any of us... (any of you certified genius?) but that's what your playing! or more wise than any living cleric... Mother Theresa I would say had a 19 wisdom and we have characters with 25+ out there. It's hard to make it sensible in our terms much less game terms. But that is what we try to do... and that becomes more OOC than IC.
I'm not trying to change your RP... just suggesting that its much less than we really wish it was. I don't say mine is any better... I just say try to leave others to their rp...it's theirs...not yours.
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:04 pm

Hmm yes using my character in your little rp on the forums with Crystal proves your lack of talent and consideration Houd do not do that again.
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:11 pm

I apologize for my above post, was rude of me to say it like that. If you wish to use my char in such a way please just ask next time no hard feelings please. *offers an unpoisoned muffin*
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PostSubject: Re: Meta gaming and gripes and misc junk   Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:36 pm

I have no issue with rp, from you or anyone else, but it is role play. There in, one should play a role. As far as getting along, well you shot that down with your dwarf's rp in hills home, demanding that players had to leave because you said so, both ic and ooc. I imagine that so long as cal doesn't run into any of your chars then things will be as smooth as ever. Do make note, i tend to try and state the facts, and not bad mouth anyone too much with out the proof, of which i still have screen shots of i might mention.
So there is that, i hope everyone enjoys the little rants here . Smile
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